The following is the transcript from Episode 12 of Retire Happy with Roger Gainer, a financial and business audio podcast.

Roger: A lot of people are just plain intimidated and overwhelmed by this decision making process and understanding what they’re investing in. So this is my great concern is cutting off a large chunk of our population from really the financial education and support that they need to be successful.

Clark: You’re listening to Retire Happy with Roger Gainer, President of Gainer Financial and Insurance Services, Inc. Thanks for joining us. I’m your host, Clark Buckner. In today’s episode we’re going to learn more about a fiduciary rule, recently put in place by the Federal Department of Labor and how it’s gonna affect the advisors and clients when it goes into full effect at the beginning of 2018.

Along the way, we’ll also dive into the world of Robo-advisors. What that means? We’ll get to that. And how conflicts of interest can play an unexpected part in the world of finances. For more content like this, be sure to visit gainerfinancial.com. Enjoy the show.

Roger, welcome back. I’m so excited to talk with you today about an interesting topic. I’ll kind of tee it up in just a moment. But first, how are you doing?

Roger: Oh, things are great, you know. Summer seems to have exploded on the scene and it’s just a great time of the year. A lot is going on and we had a great client appreciation event last week. People had a great time and it’s just our way of saying thank you. And it just kinda opens up the summer season where it’s just non-stop. Good things going on.

Clark: Well, speaking of summer, you went on vacation recently, right?

Roger: Well, actually we went to a dear friend’s, kind of our godson informally, his graduation from University of Colorado in Boulder. So that was great. It was a great weekend. I hadn’t been back to Boulder for many, many years. My wife had never been there and…it’s just a great little town.

Clark: Wow, I love that. Well, good. I’m glad that we’re back together and I’ve got a topic in mind that would love to have your clarity on. So recently in the years, and there’s a lot going on in the news these days, but recently in the years there’s a new set of rules of the fiduciary standards.

Roger: You mean the Department of Labor rules that went into effect last week?

Clark: Right. So there’s like a new standard for advisors. There’s a lot of different opinions and perspectives on it. So with these standards…you know, what are they? What challenges does it create for both advisors like you and customers who are looking to plan for retirement? People who are trying to navigate, can seem very daunting and very overwhelming.

Roger: Well, you know, like any major shift in policy regulation, really in any endeavor, it takes a while to figure out exactly how it’s going to affect everybody. You know, when we had the healthcare overhaul a few years back, we didn’t know what that was going to do to premiums exactly and now we know. We’re a few years down the road. I kinda call that the law of unintended consequences.

But with this rule, we’ve changed the nature and the format for providing advice to folks about their retirement accounts. So this is a Department of Labor Fiduciary Rule. And it went into effect last Monday except it didn’t fully go into effect last Monday because they’re still taking a commentary, the Department of Labor. They’re still writing out some of these regulations and fleshing them out. And the full rule won’t be implemented and in place until January of next year. So we have some early parts. There’s some new disclosures that we have to offer. But I think maybe it will help people to understand what is different. What does it mean to be a fiduciary?

Fiduciary, the short version is I have to put my clients’ interests before mine. And I know a lot of people thought, “Well, wasn’t that the way that it was always supposed to be?” I voluntarily became a Fiduciary about 10, 11 years ago. I gave up my registered rep broker’s license, and I’m a fee-based financial planner now. And up until last week, about 15% of the industry operated voluntarily under the standard by becoming a registered investment advisor or affiliating with a registered investment advisor as an investment advisory representative, which is what I am.

So what that means is simply we sign an agreement with folks and I can do comprehensive financial planning for people looking at taxes and estate planning, risk management to, yes, investments and other business agreements, etc.
This is a more specific rule because it just regulates how advisors have to act in relation to helping people with retirement accounts. So what are those? IRA’s pretax contributions, deferred compensation plans that are ERISA plans, not deferred compensation that isn’t 401k’s, money purchase plans, SPEs, SIMPLE plans, and the like. So anytime you have money in a retirement account and you sit down with an advisor to discuss what’s in the account, this fiduciary rule is what’s in charge and dictates the engagement.

Clark: Okay. So when we zoom out a little bit and we kind of create this two different buckets with challenges that advisers have and then the challenges people looking for retirement help, people looking for assistance. What would be like maybe just two or three bullet points? We had a bullet way down like just top of mindset of what those are.

Roger: Okay. Well, for investors, one of the big concerns if you’re a middle income or lower income investor, in other words, you’re starting out, you’re just trying to put some money away, send it forward, build some capital, the liability is gonna be so high. It’s gonna be very difficult to find advice from anybody, anybody to discuss how do I get money out of here? What’s the best strategy? What kind of investments are appropriate for me?

In fact, many brokerage firms have already eliminated advice on IRAs and the like. They’ve jettisoned that business altogether because the liability is potentially very, very great. Again, the vagueness of the standards that have not been written yet have caused many people to give pause. It’s considered that Robo-advisors…and I don’t know if you know what that is, but there’s…

Clark: Yeah, how do you define a Robo-advisor?

Roger: Well, Robo-advisors are investment platforms that are run by computers. So you essentially go to a website, you register, you answer series of questions about mostly risk, and they make investment recommendations in portfolios that are managed by computer algorithms. So they really are Robo-advisors. There’s not a human interaction in that decision making process.

These forks are likely to flourish actually under this model, whether that is good or bad, only time will tell. This is a relatively new phenomenon. Robo-advisors have only been around for three, four, to five years. And we’re still working out some of the kinks and seeing how that works out for the investing public. I think there’s some potential there, certainly.

But otherwise, you’re gonna be on your own, you know, going to places like Fidelity or Vanguard making these decisions on your own, or paying somebody like me. And that’s where it really is gonna break down for that new investor or somebody that doesn’t necessarily have hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in one of these accounts. They’re gonna have to pay me by the hour, and that’s gonna keep a lot of people away from working with somebody like me and getting advice.

So they’re kind of gonna be running around in the dark. And from talking with thousands of people over my career, a lot of people are just plain intimidated and overwhelmed by this decision making process and understanding what they’re investing in. So this is my great concern is cutting off a large chunk of our population from really the financial education and support that they need to be successful.

Clark: In previous podcasts, we’ve talked about how important it is to remove emotion, right? Remove emotion from making decisions. And I’m assuming about Robo-advisor, I mean, there’s obviously no emotion there, so that’s probably a good thing. But I’m curious, so, well, what do you think are some of the potential challenges based on the people you’ve talked over your entire career, or you just mentioned thousands of people, what do you think would be a downfall, even though they don’t have emotion and that’s a good thing, what do you think is a bad thing with that style or that tool of the Robo-advisor?

Roger: Well, one of the things I worry about and there’s been a lot of studies that show that people who work with advisors tend to not be as emotional in making financial decisions. And so if I’m working with a Robo-advisor and we start to see a crash like 2008, you know, is somebody gonna jump out and never get back in? Are they gonna say, “Oh, I can’t put money towards my retirement. I’m just gonna lose it anyways”? I’ve heard a lot of that in the early 2000s and again in ’08, ’09. “What the heck? I don’t wanna save it and then just lose it in the market. I might as well just have a good time now and worry about it later.” So I think there could be a reduction in participation in savings programs. That’s probably my single biggest concern.

Now one thing I’ve learned about people is people don’t like to be wrong. Even though being wrong gets you to the best right answer eventually and the most successful people got no or failed more often than others, people just don’t like to be wrong. I’ve had people come in here that were referred to me six or seven years before they actually showed up, because they were embarrassed about what they were doing. They didn’t think they were doing as well as they should be, or they didn’t think that they were in the right investments. And they didn’t want somebody to tell them they were wrong.

So they just didn’t come and seek advice just because of the ego, even though they felt a little bit overwhelmed or a lot overwhelmed in a couple of cases that come to mind, and they knew they weren’t on sustainable courses. They were just afraid to find out what they were doing wrong. And I’m just afraid that we get another downtown because you know they’re coming. It’s like buses, they just come periodically. Okay?

So you have to expect that they’re coming, but the question becomes, “When and how do I deal with it?” So if I have a bad experience with one and I say, “Gee, I’m never going through that again,” then, you know, you could end up frozen and not saving anything at all and find out you’re getting into your 60s and 70s and I can’t work anymore and I don’t have any money, and suddenly the social safety net is expanded dramatically. And that’s a potential unintended consequence. I don’t know that’s for sure that’s gonna happen, but that’s probably the single biggest worry that I have is folks that are doing it on their own.

You know, Suze Orman has always said, “You can do it on your own. You don’t need any help.” And I talked to a lot of those people and they either put their money in stuff and close their eyes and cross their fingers and hope it goes up and find out years later it didn’t, or they just don’t do anything. They’re frozen like a dear in the headlights.

Clark: Right. So they don’t have like an empathetic insight maybe or they don’t have like the human to human insight that you can’t replicate. Because you can meet someone where they’re at. Maybe they have been embarrassed, maybe they’ve felt the what if’s too long, and they’ve just been frozen in their tracks. It takes another human to reach out and say, “Hey, we can do this, or let’s take a look at things.” That seems to be much more empathetic than just, I don’t know, an algorithm.

Roger: There’s a big difference between money helping you sleep better at night or keeping you up and awake. And if you’re not confident in what you’re doing with it, it’s gonna keep you awake. It’s gonna become a source of stress instead of a source of comfort. And really a Robo-advisor can’t talk you through those things. Then it gets back to that, “I’m doing what somebody told me I should be doing instead of what’s comfortable to me.” There’s a lot of approaches. There’s a lot of different ways to get from point A to point B. To get from I’m working to I’m happily retired. And figuring out the correct approach for you, your psychology, your lifestyle.

You know, I had a couple in here yesterday. I hadn’t see them since November because they’re just that busy. And so we did a little bit of work for them in November. We did some investing because that’s what they asked for, but they know they want and need comprehensive financial planning. They’re paying too much in taxes. Their risk management is all out of whack. And they’re just super, super busy. But they were stressed out when they came to me that they weren’t gonna be able to retire.

Now we have a path and they’re so busy that we’ve selected tools that they can just look at once or twice a year that don’t need constant monitoring and attention, or even semi-constant monitoring and attention, because, frankly, they’re just too busy. They don’t have the time. So Robo-advisors will advise you within the parameters of their programming. But they can’t make those adjustments based on those kinds of psychological inputs. I can’t imagine some way, I suppose maybe eventually, artificial intelligence can be adapted, but we’re probably quite a ways from being that adaptive to figuring out that stuff.

Clark: All right. Definitely.

Roger: And so these folks, you know, we went over again what we did back in December and they said, “Well, what other alternatives?” We went over a few of those. And they said, “No, that’s just gonna take too much of our time.” So we’re really happy with this approach. It’s not an approach that would have ever, ever come up with the Robo-advisor. I can guarantee that.

Clark: Right. Well, I think that’s a great way to use a topic to kind of talk about how there have been changes and Robo-advisors being some thing that, you said, just a couple of years and still gonna take very long time for it to be really be at all comparable. But for where things are right now, probably there’s a little bit of a connection to the recent news that we’ve been talking about with the fiduciary standards changing or potentially changing and what that means for advisors and investors. So right now, I know you said this earlier, but I’m just trying to really wrap my head around it. So it’s moving away from the opportunity for it to be fee-based.

Roger: No, no.

Clark: Right?

Roger: No.

Clark: Oh, it’s only going that… Can you clear that up for me a little bit?

Roger: Yes, sure. It’s gonna be where it’s all fee-based. A lot of financial products historically have been commission-based and…

Clark: Maybe that’s what I was thinking of.

Roger: So, you know, you buy a mutual fund and the advisor earns a commission. You buy an annuity, the advisor earns a commission. You trade a stock. There’s a trading fee. Sometimes, you know, there’s a flat fee based on the percentage of the assets under management. AUM is what it’s referred to in the industry. And that’s become more and more, the more common model, but there are still products that advisors earn commissions on.

And so under this new standard, there’s going to be more disclosure about commissions, costs, fees, etc., which is I have no issue with that. You know, I’ve been lobbying to restructure commissions in certain lines of financial products for many, many years, but laughed down at a lot of conferences. And I’m hoping that we see some restructuring. I think it will be good for the client ultimately if we see some restructuring there.

But initially, it’s gonna change the focus from the customer to the advisor I think. It’s certainly gonna slow down processes because there’s gonna be extra layers of paperwork. There’s already a lot of paperwork compared to what is was 20 or 30 years ago, and now there’s gonna be even more paperwork that has to be done. Some transactions will take a little longer.

That’s not a huge consequence.

What I worry about is the vagueness of the implementation of this rule and I’m gonna be very hesitant to work with just anybody on their retirement and considering our entire practice is based on helping people successfully make that transition to retirement. It’s gonna be an interesting next few months, maybe even the next couple of years while this all sort itself out.

As one of my mentors said a couple of weeks back, “If you’re already doing things the right way and documenting everything and operating as a fiduciary and getting to know your client and all of those goods things, you shouldn’t have a problem.” So I’m not too worried in that way, but a big chunk of this rule was written by the plaintiff’s bar in such a way that I think it opens advisors up to tremendous amount of future potential liability. And I think there will be some frivolous lawsuits hiding behind this rule. And that’s the other big worry because that will add a ton of cost and make certain products frankly unattainable for the investing public.

Clark: I know we’ve also talked about, in the past, there’s no single product that is the match for everyone. That’s all about options to sort of navigate all that to find the best option on your path to retirement. But when you kind of boil all this down in all of this change and some of the worry that it creates with the vagueness and kind of the uncertainty, what do you think it’s safe to be optimistic about right now?

Maybe this is to the people that you’re advising, your clients or maybe this is to people who are kind of on that fence right now, maybe it’s the person you said earlier. Maybe they’re kind of like coming out of something or maybe they’re just kind of afraid. It is such intimidating stuff and it can feel very exclusionary and just flat-out intimidating. But what would you say is something that we can look forward to despite there being some changes in how that looks like it’s all going fee-based versus the commission-based?

Roger: Well, first, I think it’s an encouraging direction in terms of consumers. I will encourage all listeners to monitor how this evolves and keep in communication with your elected representatives to make sure that as the rules are fleshed out and the guidelines are published, that we keep it consumer friendly as opposed to attorney friendly. I think it’s gonna take a lot of vigilance on the part of the investing public to make sure that their needs and their interests are being kept in line. It’s not just the brokerage firms and the legal establishment enjoying the benefits of this. It’s really supposed to be for the consumer. And I’m afraid right now it’s not as consumer friendly as it certainly could be.

But coming out of it, if we stay and keep an eye on the right outcome, removing some of the conflicts of interest, and I wanna comment on conflicts of interest in just a moment, but, you know, I’m optimistic that ultimately, we can get this thing right. I think a fiduciary standard is a good thing. I just think it needs to be clarified, distilled in a little simpler in wording, complexity tends to lead to lawsuits. And, you know, I want people to get good solid advice that is tailored to their specific situation. So, on the other side of that, what’s an optimistic thing? I think there’ll be more fee-based advisors to choose from ultimately. Although we’ve already seen a significant exodus from the industry.

I was reading this morning that there are 22% fewer independent broker dealers than they were three years ago. And, you know, anytime we see consolidation to the bigger and bigger companies, usually it means that there’ll be fewer choices in the future and cost will increase because of a lack of competition. So because the cost of compliance is high, there might be fewer choices, but the optimism is that it comes from the ability of the rules as they’re being written to make it better for the consumer. I can only hope.

Clark: Right. Well, you said conflict of interest. You wanna touch on that before we…

Roger: Yeah. Thank you for that, Clark. I don’t think there is a profession on the planet that is not loaded with conflicts of interest. I think the medical profession is rife with conflicts of interest. The banking industry rife with conflicts of interest.

Certainly our elected officials, Congress, State Assembly, local governments, they’re just full of conflicts of interest. And even school teachers and contractors are loaded with conflicts of interest. And we can delve into that topic in the future. But anytime you earn money, you know, like [inaudible 00:26:15] said, “You have to take care of yourself first.” So whether it’s enlighten self-interest or whatever, you know, the best teachers still have to retain their jobs to be great teachers.

So we have tenure. Is tenure in the best interest of students? I just don’t know. Should doctors be able to own laboratories and then order lab tests that they’re gonna make money on? You know, hard to say if there’s excess stuff going on. Realtors when they sell a property, they wanna get that property sold. Is there a conflict of interest between them getting the property sold and paid or between getting top dollar for their client, and how do you know? You know, you could over negotiate and lose the deal.

So this focus on the conflicts of interest, you know, it’s not the only profession that has them and even this is not gonna make them go away. Another article that I read through some commentary on the Department of Labor, said that in fact some bad apples may be able to get away with even worse and more egregious violations because now the paperwork is gonna be even more complex and it’s easy to hide stuff in there.

You know, if you bought a house anytime in the last 15 years, you sat down and looked at the stack of papers and disclosures. And I understand why they’re all there and they meant well, but I can tell you when we closed on our house the title company representative was really upset that I wanted to read every single page of the stuff that they wanted us to sign. I’m signing it, I’m gonna be bound by it, I better know what’s going on and ask questions.

I’m afraid that there’s gonna be some abuses that will be slid into the paperwork and people can get away with it just by saying, “Sign here.” In fact, I have a situation with a client right now under the suitability standard. Their mom and dad were told to just sign here and now they’re in a really rough situation that we’re trying to get these folks out of. So that is something definitely to keep an eye on.

But, you know, I choose to be optimistic. That’s always my choice, if I can find a place to be optimistic. I would suggest to listeners that you might wanna sit down with a fee-based financial planner because at least my clients’ experience, they make money on investing in the advice that I give. In other words, I consider it my responsibility to find money or improve performance or reduce taxes in a manner that exceeds what you pay me. And if you can go in and look at that as an investment that you’re going to get a return on, maybe it will be a little easier for you to retain a fee-based financial planner to help you structure things in a way that works for you. So that would be advice I will give to our listeners.

Clark: That’s good. Well, earlier on, we were talking a little bit how it all can feel overwhelming. It’s easy to feel embarrassed or feel like you’re doing the wrong thing before you go and talk to someone.

So in all of that uncertainty, there is something, I know we wanna make sure we mention this on every episode, it is the thought organizer and the thought organizer is one of the tools out of the box…easy to access that you offer, and the thought organizer is an option for someone to fill out to sort of think about where are they right now? And take an honest inventory of what their goals are and then that’s just the first step to working with someone like you. So do you want to add anything about a thought organizer and why you built it the way you did?

Roger: Well, we built it the way we did to help people literary organize their thoughts. You know, there’s a lot of should versus a lot of want. “I should be investing in this type of a fund or in this type of an asset.” I’m gonna sit down this afternoon with a woman who filled out, the thought organizer said she is currently unwilling to accept downside risk on more than 10% of her portfolio. But she’s full of small cap emerging market funds, junk bond funds.

She’s got just a boatload of money invested in this high risk asset groups. And so my conversation is, she retained me as a second opinion. She’s paying an advisory fee for her assets under management. And I’m very curious to see what they suggested her suitability and risk tolerance were when they sat down with her originally because we have our folks fill that out without me or anybody else being around. We want to have it already filled and brought in.

So comparing that with what she’s actually doing, the thing she’s currently doing are not consistent with her comfort zone and with her objectives. So if you have an advisor, if you have investments somewhere, you can use that thought organizer to help you get a solid feel for how you feel about risk, what keeps you up at night, what are your priorities. And having that context the next time you go in and sit down and review that portfolio with folks at that the brokerage firm or Schwab or your advisor, the bank, or whomever you’re working with.

This gives you that context so that you can speak confidently about yourself instead of having them tell you what you should be doing or how you should be feeling. So that’s how I would be recommending people to use that thought organizer right out today.

Clark: That’s great. So all that is available at gainerfinancial.com. This is usually, when we start to wrap things up, I’ve always enjoyed our conversation and I know this is a lot of stuff and I know we could really keep talking and keeping the conversation going because this stuff is pretty complicated. But I really appreciate how you were able to break it down for me, someone like me to understand. So I’ve enjoyed it. Do you have any final things in your heart before we wrap up?

Roger: Well, I hope I didn’t serve to add to the confusion out there. This is one of those kind of topics where you can really find yourself in the weeds. But, you know, keep your chin up out there and if you have questions, feel free to give us a call, 415-331-9030. Happy to answer any questions about how this affects you or stuff you don’t understand. You know, we really want to see the level of discourse and decision making increased for everybody.

Clark: Excellent. Roger, thank you so much. I am looking forward to our next Retire Happy podcast.

Roger: Beautiful. Thank so much, Clark. Talk you soon.

Clark: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Retire Happy. Be sure to head on over to gainerfinancial.com to download your thought organizer to get started. Roger L. Gainer, CHFC, California insurance license number, 0754849, is licensed to sell insurance and annuity products in California, Illinois, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and New York.

Roger L. Gainer is an investment advisor representative providing advisory services through HFIS, Inc., a registered investment advisor. Gainer Financial & Insurance Services, Inc. is not owned or affiliated with HFIS, Inc., and operates independently. Thanks again so much, and we’ll see you next time on Retire Happy.

The following is the transcript from Episode 10 of Retire Happy with Roger Gainer, a financial and business audio podcast.

Roger: Anytime we see a major disaster or something that catches the news, inevitably, the crooks follow in the wake and try to snag people who are naturally nervous.

Clark: You’re listening to Retire Happy with Roger Gainer, president of Gainer Financial and Insurance Services, Inc. It seems that every single time we turn on the TV, there’s news of yet another security breach and millions of Americans’ personal and identifiable information is at risk. Sadly, Equifax is just one more example added to the books of a worldwide impact from hackers throughout that try to take our information.

So on today’s episode, we’re taking a closer look at how you can protect yourself with these easy-to-follow steps, including how to not fall in the trap of common scams like phishing emails. Thanks for joining us. I’m your host, Clark Buckner. Let’s jump right in.

All right, Roger. Welcome back. I am really looking forward to talking with you today. There’s some really important things every episode we talk about here on Retire Happy. But right now, we’re about to talk about some of the recent data breaches, and not just specifically what is happening with some of these big security vulnerabilities that are impacting millions of people. We’re gonna be talking about some actionable tips that anyone can implement. And that’s kind of the main objective for today. So how does that sound to you? How are you doing?

Roger: Oh, I’m doing great. It’s a scary situation. And we’ve always talked to clients for years and years and years about protecting your identity, protecting your credit. I’ve known people who’ve had their identity stolen and it’s a nightmare. It becomes a full-time job trying to get your identity back. And so protecting it in the first place, it might make a couple of things a little more inconvenient in life, but it’s nothing compared to the inconvenience of trying to get your financial life back if somebody has hijacked your identity.

Clark: Out of curiosity, I don’t know anyone personally who this has happened to but are there just one or two general examples? I mean, of course, like, don’t have to mention any names of people, but just what that looks like zoomed in on an individual person’s life. What happens if their identity is stolen and they find out someone has been doing something that they, of course, didn’t authorize?

Roger: Well, there’s two main kinds of identity theft here. One is having your tax refund stolen which is happening more and more. I work with a lot of tax preparers and every year, there’s more stories. And last year, there’s quite a few more stories about people filing their taxes and applying for refund and getting a letter from the IRS that says, “You’ve already gotten your refund and there’ll be no refund for you.” And we’re auditing your tax return because somebody took their tax ID number and filed a false tax return, claimed a significant refund. And now that they’re…after the refund’s gone out, now they’re talking about audits and different things. Plus, the people who should be using that tax ID number are unable to file for their refund. They are gonna get fined for not filing a proper return and all those other issues. It’s really…it’s frightening.

And the other side is when your credit is stolen, if you get…somebody can open credit cards and lines of credit in your name, run up huge bills, and then not pay them which, you know, will drop your credit scores dramatically. So the next time you want to buy a car or refinance your house, you know, to even just apply for credit card, you’re gonna get turned down or charged a much, much higher rate. And usually, that’s how you find out that somebody’s stolen your credit history, hijacked it, is you’re applying for credit because you’re sitting in a car dealer, ready to buy a car and they come back and say, “Your credit score’s, you know, 500.” And you go, “What? Wait a minute, I’ve got great credit. And last time I checked it, it was 800. What happened?” “Well, you have all these delinquent bills.” And so it starts. And that’s when the nightmare happens, you have to contact creditors and the credit bureaus and the police. And it just…you have to come up with proof. The burden is on you to prove that you were hacked, not on the bank to prove that you were not.

Clark: Right, right. So what kinds of information generally is required for that to happen? And I think then that might be a good transition to talk about the most recent hack, the Equifax hack. I mean, there’s a lot of things like Equifax unfortunately, but that’s just the most recent one.

Roger: Yeah. The three big agencies for credit monitoring are Equifax, TransUnion, and Experian. So only Equifax was hacked, but they took 143 to 149…I’ve seen the estimates that high…million identities and they got the stuff you need to open an account, they got Social Security numbers, your address, your date of birth and where you were born. And so that’s usually the things that are needed to open a credit account. There are other people who were in dispute over their credit reports. Another 209,000 people whose entire credit report were taken, and then another 182,000 folks who were in the process of having their credit check whose entire credit reports were taken. Now those folks, they’re probably gonna have problems sooner than the others because their credit numbers, their credit card numbers and account numbers were stolen. And usually, thieves will wanna run those up really fast before somebody can shut those accounts off. But for most people, just about everybody that has a credit report, their base identity information was taken.

Clark: It’s really sad. It really is disappointing.

Roger: Well, you know, it is disappointing. The internet was never designed to be secure when it was first created, and this is one of the…why it’s so vulnerable. And, you know, this isn’t the first major data hack. The Social Security Administration was hacked not that long ago. This is why there’s such a movement to get rid of Social Security numbers as an identification. They were not intended to be identification numbers and as a result, the system just isn’t that secure when it comes to these things. I would expect something to come along in the next few years, but right now, we’ve gotta deal with the system that’s in place and that includes protecting your Social Security number.

Clark: So let’s talk about a couple ways to protect that, not just the Social Security number, but other essential things. Like, what…would you do both in response to a big outbreak like this and what should you be doing on an ongoing basis? Kind of two questions here.

Roger: Well, sure. Based on the outbreak, the only way to protect yourself, and unfortunately, it’s gonna be for years to come because 143,000,000 records. You may not get hacked for years, you know. Thieves go to what’s called, “the dark web” and they buy this information. I read recently that the kind of information that was stolen from Equifax fetches between $5 and $10 on “the dark web” so people go buy thousand of these things and, you know, just start opening accounts in those records’ names. To get through 143,000,000, it’s gonna take quite a while. So the first thing to do is to freeze your account, you know. This is, unfortunately, gonna be what we’re all going to be dealing with, like I said, going forward to protect your identity. So putting a security freeze on your account and you’d need to do this at all three credit bureaus.

This is gonna be a little bit annoying and kind of cumbersome and it actually costs money to do based on the state you’re in. It will be either $5 or $10. Here in California, it costs $10 per reporting agencies. So 30 bucks to freeze your credit accounts. Even here in California, the State of California Department of Justice Attorney General has put up a special bulletin on how to freeze your credit files and included there are links to Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion. So you can go directly. And I don’t recommend calling these folks, people are getting disconnected, they’re sitting on hold for a long time, there are just a huge volume of people trying to make…

Clark: There’s millions of people, right?

Roger: Millions of people are trying to freeze and they’re all trying to freeze right now. So be patient when you hit their websites, they’re, you know, not designed to handle the influx of people that they’re experiencing now. They’re doing things to improve the volume that their websites can handle but sometimes it’s been glitchy. Sometimes, the websites are crashing and you just have to come back and it’s just the way it is. So…but be patient and do it. I’m a little nervous myself because when you do put a freeze and if you’re applying for credit, say, for a car or in my case we’re trying to get an equity line, I can’t put the freeze on right now because the underwriters have to have access to my account and it takes a few days to freeze and unfreeze. So I have to leave this off until we get a decision. I don’t know when they’re gonna, you know, look at my credit reports. So we’re ready to go but we have to finish the underwriting process and then we can put a freeze on.

So the other thing you can do, which we have done…it doesn’t prevent people from opening accounts in your name…but you can put an alert and this notifies you after an account has been accessed. So, somebody makes an inquiry to check your credit, solicit you for credit. If somebody tries to access an account without my express permission, they’ll give me a holler. Like I said, it’s an after-the-fact kind of thing so that…it’s better than nothing, but it’s not as good as freezing your account. Now, the other thing is because of the alerts and the fact that freezing your account only will protect you against new…somebody taking out new credit in your name, you have to start paying attention to your credit card bills. So when those statements come in, scan them just to see that the things that are being charged are things that you actually spent money on. I know a lot of folks, they’re busy, the bills come in, they sit down to pay the bills or they do it online and they just click “pay.” So they’re not really looking at the detail on their credit cards, they’re just looking at, “How much do I owe this month?” And…

Clark: Right, or an “auto.” Sometimes it’s an “auto” thing too, right?

Roger: Right. A lot of times we set up auto pay on these credit cards just because we don’t have time, we can’t be bothered. But if somebody’s putting charges on your accounts, the sooner you come up with that information and tell the bank and freeze your account, the less liability you’re going to have, which brings me to encouraging folks not to use their debit cards. One of the protections, when you buy stuff with a credit card goes away if you use a debit card, and that is there’s a $50 maximum liability as long as you report to the credit card companies. So in theory, the bank works the same way with your ATM card. But think about this, if you charge something or you swipe your ATM card and that identity is frozen, and somebody takes thousands of dollars out of your checking account, it’s your money that’s missing while the bank does their investigation before they determine whether you get your money back.

Clark: Gotcha. I hear you.

Roger: It’s your money. When you use a credit card, it’s their money. Okay.

Clark: Right. Well, that also plays in the…a kind of larger theme of what you talk about too with, you know, using someone else’s money, using the bank’s money with growing your assets and all that. I think it’s just like, a very…like a micro example of that in a different context, but…

Roger: Well, it’s just another layer of protection because you’re using…the bank’s money is what’s being risked to those thieves who are stealing identities from credit terminals, at stores, and gas stations, etc. So…yeah. I’m one of those guys when I go into the gas station where they don’t…my gas station doesn’t take my credit card, it only takes the ATM card or cash. I feel all around the ATM scanner to see if they’ve put a separate device in there if it’s been altered in any way to grab the information off of my debit card, and then they’ll put a little pinhole camera. So usually today, there’s a little guard covering the keypad so your hand slides up underneath that, but sometimes some people put actually a little camera in there so that they can match the keystrokes with the magnetic information they’ve stolen by putting a “skimmer,” is what they’re called.

And to all feel around underneath there or, you know, get a little closer to keypad to make sure somebody isn’t looking over my shoulder, at the numbers that I’m punching in. So it’s just a…you know, again, people call me paranoid, but this is how your identities are getting stolen, this is how people are losing money in their bank accounts. People are watching them at the ATM, people are watching them at the gas station. And, you know, putting that in…those little gizmos that are credit card readers and leaving them on for a little while and then pulling them off before anybody that owns the gas station really notices. And they’ve collected, you know, information on dozens of credit cards or debit cards. And if they can combine that with the pin, it’s not real hard to go to an ATM and start draining your accounts.

Clark: Wow. How about we shift over to some of the other scams that are happening because this is just general advice, I know that you talk about but phishing scams, do you wanna go there next?

Roger: Yeah, and that’s a really good point. Anytime we see a major disaster or something that catches the news, inevitably, the crooks follow in the wake and try to snag people who are naturally nervous. So I’ve seen a couple of emails pretending to be Equifax, click on this link because your account’s been compromised, you know, or we’re the IRS and you’re in trouble, your account’s been compromised. Click here to get more information or specifics or I’m getting these phone calls at home now left on my answering machine, you know. This is the IRS and you will be prosecuted. You’ve committed some heinous violation and you better call right now.

So these are going up more and more and then, unfortunately, with all the natural disasters, here poor Puerto Rico today, with the hurricane and in all the Caribbean Islands, with the last few hurricanes in Florida and Houston area, and down in Texas in the Gulf. There’s tons of scams that come out of those too, from charities offering relief to contractors, and attorneys, and insurance adjusters, all kinds of service providers, you know. And they’re just reaching out and give me a small deposit or respond to this, register for your FEMA money, and then it takes $100 to register. All kinds of things like that come out of these types of big events that most people know about. And, you know, that group worry. And that’s what they’re playing on.

So be very, very careful. If you get an email that looks like it’s coming from one of these types of organizations, pick up the phone and give them a call because you’ll find that it’s rare that those kinds of communications come from the IRS or Social Security or your bank. They’re usually trying to reach you in a different way. So if you initiate the call, you look up the number. Don’t call the number that they left on your answering machine because obviously, that’s their number and they’ll answer it and pretend to be the bank.

Clark: That’s helpful to go through those. I know it’s no fun to talk about it, but it’s a real thing and it can keep people from their goals to retire happy and to live the life that they’re trying to live. So I think that those are some really practical tips that you’ve shared today. Do you have anything else on your mind about this?

Roger: Well, yeah. There’s a couple three things. We’ve given away security pens for, God, five or six years now.

Clark: And you’re talking about…this is a written pen, this is an actual…

Roger: This is…yeah. This is a Uni-ball, has a patented type of ink that actually soaks into the paper. So when you sign a check, thieves can’t do the acid-wash trick to change the payee and how much money the check’s been written for. It’s pretty common. People steal your bills from the outbound mailbox. That’s why never mail money…

Clark: Cash or check.

Roger: …or important communication by sticking it in your mailbox and putting that flag up. You know, where we live, they’re not dropping the mail through the slot and we can leave mail for the mailman by putting the flag up on our mailbox. Don’t do that with anything that’s important that’s outbound. Another thing…

Clark: That’s a pretty neat swag item, it’s not one of those cheapo pens. You’re giving away some pretty nice stuff.

Roger: Well, it’s a…you know, I have clients who come in just to get a new pen. They like the way they write and they like the security that when they sign something, they know it’s really signed. Another thing I would encourage our listeners to invest in is an outstanding paper shredder. And what’s important is it’s not a strip shredder, and it’s not a crosscut shredder. Those can be reconstructed. In fact, the identity protection workshop that I went to where I learned about these pens, the guy who put on the workshop showed us how fast he can recreate a document that went through a strip shredder or even a crosscut shredder. It doesn’t take very long if you got some talent. And, you know, that’s why a lot of people do dumpster-diving…criminals…and to gather information like that. We here at Gainer Financial, we use a…it’s called a “confetti shredder” and it turns paper into dust.

Clark: All right.

Roger: There is no way that any of our client’s information or our personal information is getting recreated into a document. Invest in a good shredder. You won’t be sorry.

Clark: And a not cheapo pen.

Roger: Yeah.

Clark: Come talk to you to get the pen.

Roger: Yeah. Hey, when you come in for a consultation, we’ll be happy to give you a pen. They come in both blue and black.

Clark: Well, I think that’s probably a good place to start wrapping up. And for someone who is wanting to come and meet with you and learn more about you, there is a first step they can take. You wanna talk a little about the idea?

Roger: The Thought Organizer?

Clark: Thought Organizer.

Roger: Yes, the Thought Organizer. Well, I find the single biggest step to gaining control over your financial life and peace of mind is to organize your thoughts about why are you even saving money, what’s it for, what do you want your life to look like. Once you create that context, decision-making becomes so much easier. Use the Thought Organizer.

Clark: Roger, thank you so much. It’s been another great conversation with you. I always look forward to these. And I am excited about when we can get together again soon.

Roger: All right, Clark. Always a pleasure. Take care.

Clark: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Retire Happy. Be sure to head on over to gainerfinancial.com to download your Thought Organizer to get started. Roger L. Gainer, ChFC, California Insurance license number 0754849 is licensed to sell insurance and annuity products in California, Illinois, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and New York. Roger L. Gainer is an investment advisor representative providing advisory services through HFIS, Inc., a registered investment advisor. Gainer Financial and Insurance Services, Inc. is not owned or affiliated with HFIS, Inc. and operates independently.

Thanks again so much and we’ll see you next time on Retire Happy.

The following is the transcript from Episode 6 of Retire Happy with Roger Gainer, a financial and business audio podcast.

Roger: So the first thing I want people to understand whether it’s annuities, or bonds, or stocks, or real estate, or any asset class, is figure out whatever you trying to do. What keeps me up at night and what helps me to sleep better at night? That’s really what it’s all about. Why do you save and build wealth so that you can be uncomfortable? So you can be nervous? So you can be stressed out? I don’t think so. I think most people are saving money so that they can have a peace of mind and options in their life. If these tools will help to provide that I say why not use them?

Clark: You’re listening to Retire Happy with Roger Gainer. President of Gainer Financial and Insurance Services Inc. This is episode six, the two main types of annuities. Thank so much for joining us. I’m your host, Clark Buckner. Today, we’re talking all about the different kinds of annuities including what is often seen as the two main types. You’re about to hear the full conversation, but for more content like this, be sure to visit gainerfinancial.com. Let’s begin.

Roger: Hi Clark. How are you doing today?

Clark: I’m doing really well. I am super excited to revisit this topic with you. There’s been a lot of good feedback and this is always so much fun.

Roger: I’m glad you’re having a good time. I know I’m certainly am. This is a topic that we’re gonna talk about today. We touched on it in our last podcast and it’s beyond me why the topic of annuities creates so much passion. So many opinions that are not fact-based. In fact, I see articles and advertisements that really attacked this asset class in a way that just doesn’t make any sense. I think I might have mentioned before, there’s an advertiser who uses banner headlines like “Beware of Annuities” or “I hate annuities and you should too.” A couple of weeks ago at markwatch.com I even saw a banner ad for the same company that said, “Why I would die and go to hell before I would sell an annuity?” Now, I have no idea why somebody who’s supposed to be a professional adviser would have that kind of emotion around an asset class. Really, that’s all we’re talking about. It’s like saying, “I hate all stocks” or “Don’t ever buy real estate because it’s a complete rip off.” “You have to be disgusting to own a bond.” It just doesn’t make any sense. That’s why in our process, we’re always trying to figure out what is the client’s attitude and what are you trying to accomplish? Then we go out and figure out what tools, but if we eliminate a tool and it’s the perfect solution, who does that benefit? It doesn’t benefit anybody. I suppose it benefits a guy like I just mentioned who’s really trying to sell investment management services. I suppose it would benefit him or his company, but it wouldn’t necessarily benefit the investor or the client. I kinda think of a person like that or a group like that as, just imagine if the only tool you owned was a hammer, and if the only tool you owned was a hammer, everything would suddenly start looking like a nail. You know what I mean, Clark?

Clark: Yes. That is right on point.

Roger: I’ve sent away to that company for their report and a couple of occasions over the years, they keep updating the same report its filled with inaccuracies, innuendo and inferences that try to paint this broad-brush picture that all annuities are bad. They even make a claim that says, “If you have a half a million dollars in an annuity, we’ll pay your surrender charges as long as you move the money over.” And then way down deep in their fine print they explained that guarantee. They say as long as you stay with us for five years and what they’re going to do is discount their management fee for managing your assets. Now, I ran into their disclosure document and their management fee is about double what I charge for the same service. So it’s pretty easy to discount if you’re overcharging in the first place.

It’s kinda like when the grocery store says 2 for 1, but they raise the price by 50% ahead of time. When you don’t have any licenses in the financial world like the person I previously mentioned, you can get away with saying pretty much anything. You can’t say that in a grocery store by the way. You can’t raise those prices just to pretend that you’re putting something on sale. They have laws against that sort of thing, but unfortunately, when you’re under the over side of a regulator you can pretty much say whatever you want. So when we look at annuities, I just want people to understand that they’re financial tools. They’re not appropriate for everybody and for certain people, they’re absolutely the best decision you could possibly make in the best alternative for certain situations. So the first thing I want people to understand whether it’s annuities, or bonds, or stocks or real estate, or any asset class and they’re so many today, is figure out whatever you’re trying to do. What am I trying to do and what makes me comfortable? What keeps me up at night? What helps me to sleep better at night? After all, your money should help you sleep better at night. I think I’ve said that more than one time and I probably say it a hundreds more because that’s really what it’s all about. Why do you save and build wealth so that you can be uncomfortable? So you can be nervous? So you can be stressed out? I don’t think so. I think most people are saving money so that they can have peace of mind and options in their lives. So if these tools will help to provide that, I say why not use them? So Clark, let’s dig into just an overview in this session, I wanna give people an overview of the different kinds of annuities. Get use to what the different categories and then in the next few podcast I think we’ll drill down into different types a little bit more deeply so people could at least understand what the pros and the cons of these different tools are. And then maybe while you’re pondering your own circumstance, it’ll help you to determine if it’s worth investigating these tools further for your particular situation. Does that sound fair enough?

Clark: I love that. Earlier you’re saying that when you have an industry that is maybe not as easy to regulate as you could maybe a grocery store. There is a lot of noise and so I know something that you are passionate about as trying to cut through the noise and make things simple to understand. So I think it’s a great place to launch into the different kinds of annuities. I guess the first question I’m curious to hear is, how many different types are there?

Roger: They come in a lot of flavors just like ice cream, I suppose. But there’s two main types of annuities and those are single premium immediate annuities or sometimes they’re referred to as income annuities, SPIAs is how they’re referred to in the industry. And then there’s deferred annuities, the deferred annuities are annuities that you earn interest on, but you don’t pay taxes until you withdraw the money from the annuity wrapper. And we’ll dig into those more in future podcast. Today, we’re gonna talk a little bit about the S-P-I-A or SPIA as an income producer. So what these contracts are designed to do, you give an insurance company a sum of money and they return to you a stream of payments. Now, those payments can be for a specific number of years 10, 15, 20 years, or it can be for a lifetime. And that’s really what the beauty is. When I sit down and help somebody plan a retirement, if they have a pension that’s a tremendous advantage to them and it makes our job certainly much, much easier because what is a pension? A pension’s just an income annuity. It’s a series of payments that’s guaranteed to last for your lifetime. If you don’t have something like that to build your retirement security around, an income annuity might just be a great alternative because even some employers who have pension plans when an employee retires, they’ll take a chunk of money out of that pension plan and they’ll go to an insurance company and say, “Hey, we wanna buy an income annuity for this employee and we want you to guarantee those payments.” Because that way, they’re relieved of that responsibility so they really hand and glove.

There’s also another subtype called the deferred income annuity or DIA, and this is the other type of income annuity. We touched on this in our last podcast. This is an annuity where…here’s an example I recently quoted for a client, at age 65 they can put aside a $100,000 to the insurance company. What they’re essentially doing is they’re buying future income guaranteed insurance. This allows them to be a bit more aggressive with their other investments because at 65, they can spend all of their other assets before they turn 85. That $100,000 at age 85 will guarantee them $44,000 a year in annual income for the rest of their lives. And so if I’m investing a bit more aggressively or maybe spending a bit more aggressively early in retirement which a lot of people frankly want to do, you’re younger, you’re healthy, you can go hike the Machu Picchu trail or walk through the Via Dolorosa in the old city of Jerusalem. When you get older and maybe not as mobile, you’re not gonna be able to do as much of that sort of thing. So people tend to like to front-load their retirement. Well, a DIA might just be the ticket for somebody like that because then they can spend more money without the fear of “Oh my goodness, if I spend too much now, I’m just may not have it later for those final 15 or 20 years of my life.” This spies an income insurance so no matter what happens with those investments, no matter how much I overspend, I know that I’m not gonna be out in the street 20 years down the road. Either way that income annuity provides that lifetime assurance at whatever age you buy it. Generally, you’re not gonna buy one of these when you’re 40 years old or 50 years old because frankly the payouts aren’t all that spectacular, but I have a client just this week. He’s in his mid 70’s and healthy as a horse and his wife is extremely healthy and so he decided I’m gonna take a chunk of my money and buy a lifetime income. His payout for he and his wife is gonna be about 10 1/2%. So what that boils down to he’s gonna put up $40,000 and he’s gonna get back about $41,000 a year starting immediately for the rest of his life. That’s a pretty good deal.

Clark: Well, that happened immediately? $40,000 then started gaining $41,000?

Roger: Yep, he’s gonna get $41,000 a year until he dies after putting up $400,000.

Clark: Oh, got it. Four hundred thousand.

Roger: $400,000. So he exchanged $400,000 for this $41,000 a year income stream. Now, the rest of his money he’s managing in a variety of stocks and bonds, but in his situation he was concerned about the markets. He had taken a bunch of money out of the markets and he wanted to be sure that he and his wife would be able to stay in the retirement community they move to no matter what happened to those market-based investments. And that was his decision. So when we look at the immediate annuity, one of the big objections people have is if I keep that money to the insurance company, I’m gonna hit by a bus the next day.

Clark: The fear I bet a lot of people feel.

Roger: Yes indeed. And so, you know, if you talk to him in a normal conversation without discussing annuities, they would be optimistic generally speaking, thinking they’re gonna live in to their 80s or 90s and that’s why I eat well, and work out, and do all of those things. They’re good for me,but I just know if I’m gonna put this money in with an insurance company, I’m gonna get hit by a bus tomorrow and then what happens to my stream of payments? And of course if you have a basic life annuity, that stream of payment ends. Some would say, “Well, look the insurance company wins.” The insurance company wants you to live as long as you possibly can because that’s how it works. They have a big pool of people and some are gonna live longer and some are gonna live shorter and it balances it all out. The insurance company isn’t rooting against you, believe me. What they are doing is they’re managing risk and that’s how this fits in to a financial plan.

Now, because of that if you might recall I mentioned earlier that you can buy a specific period of time, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. You can combine those two concepts and buy what’s called a life with period certain. All that means is my payments are going to continue for as long as I live or 10 years whichever last longer. You create a minimum guarantee sometimes we have what’s called a guaranteed total annuity which means if I put up a $100,000 I’m gonna get my income stream. If I die too soon, my designated beneficiary’s gonna get back the balance of my deposit that I didn’t pull. That way if I come up short in terms of years, well, at least I have the knowledge that somebody is going to get the rest of the money I put up. And of course if I go long and I go past my life expectancy, the payments continue. That really is a unique option that only a life insurance company can reasonably offer.

Clark: Right, and last time we were talking about the dependency and the reliability of insurance companies as compared to banks. Previous episode digs more to that so for some of the time we have left today, you’re mentioning some of the other classes. Before we get to that, is there anything else you want to touch on with annuities?

Roger: Well, within income annuities I wanna just get through and give you a summary of the pros and the cons of these income annuities.

Clark: Excellent.

Roger: So with income annuities you get a high reliable income that you can depend on regardless of market conditions. Interest rates go up, interest rates go down, the stock market goes into tank and drops 60% you still get your income. Doesn’t matter what’s happening out there. It can cover you for a lifetime even if you ran out of money you can still have income. An income is the key to retirement security. You can also cover two lives. The clients I mentioned earlier his covering his life and his wife’s life. So whoever outlives the other one is gonna get 50%, but we can put a guarantee of 75% or even a 100% to their surviving spouse. We can add guarantees in case of an early death like I just mentioned. We can have that guarantee total annuity or period of years, or period certain. You can advantageous tax treatment for non-qualified or a non IRA situation. The client I mentioned before is buying a non-qualified annuity. What that means is 95% of each years income is tax-free. It’s considered a return of premiums. So they’re fairly unique tax treatment to an income annuity that’s not in an IRA. So that means that of that $41,000 a year that this client’s going to receive, $39,000 of that or $38,000 of that is gonna be tax-free until he hits life expectancy. Once that happens then of course it does become because you would’ve been returned all of your initial deposit then the entire payment becomes taxable. Of course the guarantees, the guarantees are probably the single biggest thing.

Now, what are the cons to this? What are the downsides to an income annuity? Well, once the incomes begun you can’t stop it. There are a few that will let you stop and pull a chunk of money out, but usually that comes at a very high cost so I would prefer a different strategy. That’s why you would never put all of your money into this strategy. You can’t change your mind after you receive your first payment. You can’t say, “You know, I would’ve liked to not have that survival benefit. I don’t want that 10-year guarantee.” It’s too bad you made a decision as soon as the first payment occurs, usually it’s 30 days after you make your deposit, you can’t change your mind. If you use fixed payments here it’s another issue that sometimes can come up. You get that $41,000 this year, well, 10 years from now because of inflation it’s not gonna be worth as much. It’s not gonna buy as much. So you might lose some purchasing power due to inflation, and again, some companies will allow you to have an increasing payout based on the consumer price index or a fix percentage increase. Then of course if the markets do soar, you’re not gonna be able to use this money to invest in the market.

So those are the downsides, but if you’re looking for guaranteed lifetime income you can’t outlive, this is one of the best solutions you’re gonna find. That’s kinda the summary of the pros and cons of an income annuity. In the next few sessions we’re going to discuss what is a deferred annuity and what are the different kinds of deferred annuities. We’re gonna drill down into each one of them. What’s a variable annuity? What’s a fixed annuity? And we’re gonna wrap up with something called a fixed index annuity. What is that? Lot of conversation about it, interesting asset class, and again, a tremendous amount of emotion. So, hopefully, you’ll tune in for some of those future podcast and we can drill down even deeper into this topic.

Clark: Excellent. Just like you’re saying earlier, these are different tools and it all comes down to what an individual needs. It’s a not one size fits all and so a natural connection to that line of thinking is the thought organizer that you and your team provides. So do you wanna explain this…what the thought organizer is and how it can help someone navigate all of these different tools and help them pick the options that’s best for them.

Roger: Well, the thought organizer is really a tool that we start out with every client engagement. Every new client goes through thaecompleting a thought organizer and what that’s designed to do is to help you clarify your thinking about your personal situation. What am I trying to accomplish? What makes me comfortable? What makes me uncomfortable? What would I be doing different if I could have a do-over? And really get in touch with your situation plus what are your feelings about money? What kinds of things keep me up at night? So to see if your thinking is consistent and you can create that context for better decision making. That’s what really the thought organizer’s all about.

Clark: Excellent. So we can get there free thought organizer just on your website.

Roger: Right on the website. When you went to listen to this podcast or to read my blog, there’s a little pop-up that you can download it from. I hope people take advantage to that option and that opportunity.

Clark: And then they get to talk to you and they get to hear all the knowledge from Roger Gainer.

Roger: [laughter] All right.

Clark: I love it. All right, I will be looking forward to this next conversation. I appreciate your time as always.

Roger: Take care, Clark.

Clark: Thanks so much for listening to this episode of Retire Happy. Be sure to head on over to gainerfinancial.com to download your thought organizer to get started. Roger L Gainer, CHFC, California Insurance license number 0754849 is licensed to sell insurance and annuity products in California, Illinois, Arizona, Pennsylvania, and New York. Roger L Gainer is an investment adviser representative providing advisory services through HFIS Inc. a registered investment adviser. Gainer Financial and Insurance Services Inc. is not owned or affiliated with HFIS Inc. and operates independently.

Thanks again so much and we’ll see you next time on Retire Happy.